Boost this if you want to be part of an explicitly anticapitalist technology liberation movement.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
It's time to stop being held back by this libertarian bullshit that corporations might possibly be okay.
Korey
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be Corporations aren't bad per say it's allowing companies to go private and do what every they want including breaking the law that's the biggest issue.
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @koreymoffett@fosstodon.org
@koreymoffett@fosstodon.org - https://fosstodon.org/@koreymoffett@fosstodon.org At least in the United States, corporations are legally prohibited from spending money on anything that is not for the purpose of getting their shareholders more money.
Fosstodon
Fosstodon is an invite only Mastodon instance that is open to those who are interested in technology; particularly free & open source software. If you wish to join, contact us for an invite.
Korey
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be I'm just saying that if they were held to the same standards as everyone else such as following the same laws everyone else does i feel like most of the issue would be solved
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @koreymoffett@fosstodon.org
@koreymoffett@fosstodon.org - https://fosstodon.org/@koreymoffett@fosstodon.org Corporations are not people.
Fosstodon
Fosstodon is an invite only Mastodon instance that is open to those who are interested in technology; particularly free & open source software. If you wish to join, contact us for an invite.
Korey
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be I don't really see what you are saying here, for example they should still pay taxes like everyone else even though they aren't people, of course the amount paid would scale.
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
So, what shall we call this movement? I think it would help to move past both the terms "free software" and "open source". Communal software? Solidarity software? Communal liberatory software?
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Let's come up with a term that creeps and fascists won't want to be associated with.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
I am drawn more and more towards simply "communal software". It is simple and to the point without needing to bring in a lot of loaded political baggage. Sure capitalists might fund some of it, but I think it would be significantly more difficult for capitalists to co-opt "communal software" than the nebulous "open source" which has had its meaning intentionally diluted and stretched to absurdity.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
I also like that "communal software" doesn't say anything about source code, which I think could be more welcoming for people contributing in ways that are not programming.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
"Communal software" might not totally keep obnoxious libertarians away, but it I think it would do a pretty good job of preventing them from dominating the discourse.
splatt9990@fosstodon.org
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be "Software of the Commons" to directly invoke the Tragedy of the Commons? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue though.
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @splatt9990@fosstodon.org
@splatt9990@fosstodon.org - https://fosstodon.org/@splatt9990@fosstodon.org I think "commons software" would be too easy for corporations to co-opt for precisely that reason.
Fosstodon
Fosstodon is an invite only Mastodon instance that is open to those who are interested in technology; particularly free & open source software. If you wish to join, contact us for an invite.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
@splatt9990@fosstodon.org - https://fosstodon.org/@splatt9990@fosstodon.org "Creative Commons" has been co-opted. lightweight - https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@lightweight can tell you more about that if you're interested.
Fosstodon
Fosstodon is an invite only Mastodon instance that is open to those who are interested in technology; particularly free & open source software. If you wish to join, contact us for an invite.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Of course, capitalists will try to co-opt "communal software" too. But I think it would be much easier to defend a *communal* definition of the term, like any other word or term in ordinary language. If the defense of the principles relies on referring to some Important White Man's proclamation of what the term means, well, who cares? That's easy for a multibillion dollar company's marketing department to trample.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
On the other hand, if everyone intuitively has a sense of what the term "communal software" means, even if they aren't intimately familiar with the history and philosophy of the movement, they could much more easily identify when a capitalist is doing some shady marketing to set their own agenda.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Can ordinary people who haven't read the Great White Mens' definition of "open source" tell the difference between what the Great White Men say it is and what Google and Microsoft say it is? Unless they think the issue is somehow important enough to spend their time researching the issue, I doubt it.
mab :linuxmintnew: :nextcloud:
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be what or who are "The Great White Men"?
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @mab@fosstodon.org
@mab@fosstodon.org - https://fosstodon.org/@mab@fosstodon.org Richard Stallman and Bruce Perens in these cases.
Fosstodon
Fosstodon is an invite only Mastodon instance that is open to those who are interested in technology; particularly free & open source software. If you wish to join, contact us for an invite.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
@mab@fosstodon.org - https://fosstodon.org/@mab@fosstodon.org https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Free_Software_Guidelines#History - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Free_Software_Guidelines#History
Fosstodon
Fosstodon is an invite only Mastodon instance that is open to those who are interested in technology; particularly free & open source software. If you wish to join, contact us for an invite.
mab :linuxmintnew: :nextcloud:
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be I guess I don't get the White Men thing. Is that a racial comment? If so, why does Their race matter? If not, then what's it mean?
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Something the term "communal software" could be used to defend against is Android. I would not call it communal software if it is developed (largely) behind closed doors and public input into development processes and priorities is not considered. A company doing their own thing then dumping a bunch of source code on the Internet without working with other people is not communal.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @mab@fosstodon.org
@mab@fosstodon.org - https://fosstodon.org/@mab@fosstodon.org It means that it's problematic to treat a few privileged people as the ones who get to decide what words mean.
Fosstodon
Fosstodon is an invite only Mastodon instance that is open to those who are interested in technology; particularly free & open source software. If you wish to join, contact us for an invite.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Similarly, I don't think it is "communal software" if it is a fork that is made without any input from the community of the original software, for example Streamlabs' OBS fork.
mab :linuxmintnew: :nextcloud:
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be why is everything about race these days? Someone has to decide what words to use and if someone else doesn't like those words, they can lobby to change them. But making it a racial issue when it isn't only furthers any preexisting racial divide or creates one where none existed prior.
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
To be clear, I think forking software can be great. Sometimes different subsets of a community have such different priorities that it is best if they split and work on different software. But let's prefer to work together wherever practical.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Another similar case would be Vital versus Vitalium. unfa - https://mastodon.social/@unfa falktx - https://mastodon.falktx.com/@falktx
unfa🇺🇦 (@unfa@mastodon.social)
7.26K Posts, 98 Following, 5.46K Followers · I'm a self-taught audio-visual artist from #Poland currently working in #GameDev. After hours I develop and lead the libre #Liblast game at https://libla.st w/ #Godot I am fostering a community focused on #MusicProduction using #FOSS & #Linux at https://chat.unfa.xyz. It grew around my video tutorials that I've been making for a better part of a decade. I value #truth, #kindness and #creativity. #Depression #ADHD #GodCreatedScience #JesusDiedForAll #PersonFromInception
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Here is a first draft to articulate what a communal software movement could be. Let's continue the discussion on Codeberg: https://codeberg.org/CommunalSoftware/website/pulls/1 - https://codeberg.org/CommunalSoftware/website/pulls/1
add initial draft
Please critique and help find more links for sources to elaborate on the text. If you found this somehow and want to join an interactive discussion, private message me on Matrix: @be:kde.org
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
I'd appreciate contributions to make it look nicer. I've been focused on writing the text so currently it's just a plain wall of text.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
"Towards A Communal Software Movement" is now online! What do *you* think about it?https://communalsoftware.codeberg.page/ - https://communalsoftware.codeberg.page/
https://communalsoftware.codeberg.page/
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Big thanks to everyone who has participated in the discussion in this thread. I don't intend for this to be an immutable document. Let's keep improving it, add more links, make it look nicer.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
I had an interesting conversation about how "communal software" would be best translated into Spanish. I learned that "communal" in Spanish has connotations of helping, somewhat like "charity" or "welfare" in English. My friends suggested "software cooperativo" instead.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
That got me thinking about using "cooperative software" in English too. I think I like it better than "communal software". "Cooperative software" feels more inviting to participate. If you don't consider yourself part of a community, "communal software" may not seem as inviting, as you may think it is for other people. What do you think?
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
FWIW, I asked my friends what they thought "software libre" meant in Spanish. To my surprise, they talked about getting the software for no cost without getting in trouble. So I think that "libre" isn't even a great term in Spanish. IMO emphasizing individual liberties misses the point just as emphasizing practical advantages or zero cost miss the point. The point is people working *together* to meet their own needs.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Who is attracted to discourse about individual liberties? Libertarians, unsurprisingly.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
xerz - https://fedi.xerz.one/users/xerz I'm curious about your thoughts on this.
Xerz 💗 (@xerz@fedi.xerz.one)
Making dreams work~❣️ catgirl of soffsoff and nyanya and prrprr whom codes and draws and also even nyas forever in love with the adorablebeautifulgorggorglovely @naipotato@transfem.soc...
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
I finally got around to watching all of Revolution OS last night. That made it very clear that pushing the term "open source" really was about emphasizing compatibility with capitalism. Bruce Perens repeatedly talks about venture capitalists' reactions.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vW62KqKJ5A - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vW62KqKJ5A
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Stallman couldn't effectively challenge what was happening with "open source" because he didn't directly critique capitalism. He just dug his heels in, got more dogmatic about insisting on *his* term and insisting that everything keep going his way instead of reflecting on how his tactics were failing and adapting to meet new challenges.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Stallman was supportive of the early free software businesses like Cygnus. He didn't like what the "open source" people were doing by begging venture capitalists for investment and forming publicly traded corporations with VA and RedHat. But because he didn't critique capitalism, he couldn't articulate what the problem was in a way that many people found appealing. He just dug his heels in.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Dictators for life are a problem. "Open core" is a problem. Proprietary relicensing is a problem. Corporations determining the agenda for software development is a problem. Supporting ICE is a problem. The rhetorics of "open source" and "free software" both fail to articulate how these are problems.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Stallman's response was "tell people that it's really GNU so they learn about why we started GNU". That ship had already sailed years before. People called it "Linux" already and trying to call it "GNU/Linux" at that point came across more as a selfish attempt to take credit than a principled stance for a political agenda. It's also an obviously ineffective communication strategy. If you need an hour long lecture to explain what you're talking about, few people are going to care.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
What if Stallman's response was to start calling it "cooperative software" or "communal software"? Maybe more people would have cared to pay attention to what he was saying. But instead he tried to put his ego all over it and generally people didn't care.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
The recent drama is unsurprising from this perspective. Stallman's response to the challenges of capitalists coming to free software were increasingly futile attempts to retain control. As time went on, I think his assertions of power became increasingly reactionary and absurd. And so it culminated last week in the explosive announcement that he was back in control of the FSF and he didn't care what anyone else thought about it.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
I'll work on significant revision to the "Towards A Communal Software Movement" essay and renaming it to "Towards A Communal Technology Movement". I might not have time today, but hopefully in the next couple of days.
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
[url=https://fosstodon.org/users/be]Be :copyleft: :fedora:[/url] So, cooperative software -- ambiguous as it is -- seems to be good enough for me. General meaning around co-ops is not about getting something without paying (while it is possible upon agreement) but about people being paid fair and just money for their work and not extracting rent.
https://fosstodon.org/users/be]Be
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @petros@friendica.wprzemianie.pl
petros - https://friendica.wprzemianie.pl/profile/petros Right, see this part of the thread https://fosstodon.org/@be/105968264493315269 - https://fosstodon.org/@be/105968264493315269
Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
[url=https://fosstodon.org/users/be]Be :copyleft: :fedora:[/url] BTW, if it may help, I am happy to provide Mattermost space for more practical/structured conversations.
https://fosstodon.org/users/be]Be
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @petros@friendica.wprzemianie.pl
petros - https://friendica.wprzemianie.pl/profile/petros Maybe Discourse?
Petros Kanenas Outis Polonos
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
[url=https://fosstodon.org/users/be]Be :copyleft: :fedora:[/url] Discourse is for discussion, Mattermost is for teamwork.
https://fosstodon.org/users/be]Be
user not found
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be Comware, Commiware, Breadware, Socware.
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire
Be
4 years ago
Reply to @ff0000@chaos.social
ff0000 - https://chaos.social/@ff0000 Commiware 😆
user not found (@ff0000@chaos.social)
5.51K Posts, 443 Following, 314 Followers · I'm Richard, nice to meet you. #front-end during the day, enjoy my family, play #drums, try my hand at other musical instruments, #design and #program, read, studying shibari / rope bondage in the evening. #javascript #html #css Getting into #hardware, low level programming, ruining my eye-sight with #soldering small things. Interested in (federated) #technology, the web, #music, leftist theory and #praxis. 🏴 ☭ #blackmetal #blastbeats #dissonance #buildnotbuy
user not found
4 years ago
Reply to @be@fosstodon.org
be - https://fosstodon.org/@be and if you sell merch it can be called: Commiwear. ;)
Be (@be@fosstodon.org)
10.2K Posts, 131 Following, 79 Followers · I ramble about computers and music here. I'm working on a new DJ software in Rust called Moiré: https://codeberg.org/Be.ing/moire