waitwaitwaitwait so you're saying **now** we're learning how to make HIV, malaria and maybe even cancer vaccines????? WHY DID IT TAKE A WORLD PANDEMIC TO APPLY ALREADY EXISTING TECHNIQUES TO THE WORLD'S BIGGEST HEALTH ISSUES https://twitter.com/AugustusRotter/status/1378432530408439809

xerz - https://fedi.xerz.one/users/xerz In short, because they weren't already existing techniques. The technology used to make the COVID vaccines wasn't ready for use even two years ago. We basically got really lucky with the timing.

@xerz@fedi.xerz.one regulation that makes it too expensive to bring this stuff to market

@lain@lain.com it’s easy to say that the regulation is to blame, but that regulation arises from everyone’s expectations and standards most people are fine with things being strict and taking their time to ensure safety overall, and both governments and pharma seem to like the periods too and R&D is not affected by such, it's *always* gonna be quite expensive due to the complexity of the issues and, once again, the expected rigorousness

@xerz@fedi.xerz.one well, you answered your own exasperated question then

@lain@lain.com not really, I still think it could have happened much earlier if the incentives were right or if people didn't care as much about them

@xerz@fedi.xerz.one @lain@lain.com I think the issue here was that mRNA wasn't a viable option until very recently, the research was only being kept alive by two companies, they had a breakthrough, and now we get amazing new drugs and they get a pile of money for taking that risk when no one else would. If anything it sounds like the system is working.

@Moon@shitposter.club @lain@lain.com well, it has worked good enough to *barely* get in time for COVID19, so that's great but I try to look for the best system possible here, and I'm wondering if there was such a need to take risks at all, or if we should have taken a lot more risks assuming losses for a greater good, or something alike

@xerz@fedi.xerz.one @lain@lain.com I am actually in favor of governments funding some drug development and then allowing them to be put in the public domain immediately. But I think you can have a ton of people and a ton of money and still have a limit the number of leads you can explore. In that other thread someone mentioned other diseases that kill more people than COVID. If there was a public panic about those diseases we'd probably unlock resources just as fast as we did with COVID. If it's really true that we got a safe and tested vaccine in ten months because all roadblocks were removed, that gives us a great meter stick to measure against for other health problems. So yeah I think that we could do a lot better.

@Moon@shitposter.club @xerz@fedi.xerz.one @lain@lain.com >If it's really true that we got a safe and tested vaccine in ten month we didn't emergency use is not approval

@hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @Moon@shitposter.club @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one it's really an experimental gene therapy, not a vaccine. certainly no reliable evidence yet that it does anything to prevent the spread or reduce mortality of covid the mortality stats themselves are so fraudulent and confounded between medicare fraud and overly sensitive rtPCR tests, the whole thing is a joke i'm all set with no vaccine but if other people want to test it out we'll see what happens to them

@meowski@fluf.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @Moon@shitposter.club @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one yup. i want a meme photo of "Who Is Atlas?" but replaced with "Where Is Influenza?"

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one isn't that neat how it magically eliminated the flu deaths. most rational people would think "hmm we might have a problem with our testing methodology" but not the Public Health Experts they'll sweep that under the carpet and full steam ahead mass experiment on the public

@meowski@fluf.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @Moon@shitposter.club @xerz@fedi.xerz.one I think the Israel study showed that there's a good effect for Corona with the mRNA vaccines. If it's worth to do is another question.

@lain@lain.com israel also showed that the odds of dying to vaccine complications were greater than the odds of dying to corona (cc @mystik@midnightride.rs ) @meowski@fluf.club @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @xerz@fedi.xerz.one

@meowski@fluf.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one it doesn't interact with the cell nucleus at all, how is it gene therapy

@meowski@fluf.club @icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @xerz@fedi.xerz.one one explanation is that the vastly longer incubation time of covid is responsible for that, which does make sense.

@lain@lain.com @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @meowski@fluf.club @mystik@midnightride.rs @xerz@fedi.xerz.one my own (outdated probably) calculations was that only 5% of people are hospitalized by covid (and 2.5% of those die; albeit those 2.5% are also typically deficient in Vit. D and have many comorbidities) while 5% of people who get pfizer/moderna'd are hospitalized (the death count is *much* lower.)

@meowski@fluf.club @icedquinn@blob.cat @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one isn't it just that the methods for preventing coronavirus spread are more effective for the flu than coronavirus? doesn't seem complicated.

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @meowski@fluf.club @mystik@midnightride.rs @xerz@fedi.xerz.one you are just pulling numbers out of your ass

@Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one even though it's not supposed to recombine into the dna, it's still possible. and as far as being a gene therapy- even though it's not supposed to be recombined into the dna, it still produces RNA which is functionally the same end point mRNA is a complement molecule of DNA- dna by itself isn't generally functional other than as a template to produce RNA and proteins. so idk you can argue about the semantics of what is a gene- but many viruses contain only RNA. RNA is widely viewed to be a precursor to DNA in evolution.

@ew@social.ancreport.com @icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @meowski@fluf.club @xerz@fedi.xerz.one Pay attention, he's saying 2.5% of a 5% (of "cases" I guess). That's a really tiny number.

@lain@lain.com @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @icedquinn@blob.cat @xerz@fedi.xerz.one a more realistic explanation is that viruses are everywhere, and rtPCR tests at the 40 cycle threshold that they were being used at will detect one dead virus particle and give a positive diagnosis. if they were runing 40 cycle rtPCR tests for flu, all those people would be flu deaths

@Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @icedquinn@blob.cat @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one not at all. the flu vaccine is notoriously ineffective as well. CDC admits that on average it's something like 30% effective if you even believe their own garbage numbers. some years it's a miss and it's totally ineffective

@mystik@midnightride.rs @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @icedquinn@blob.cat @lain@lain.com @meowski@fluf.club @xerz@fedi.xerz.one so? I don't care if it's a tiny number. there's no proof covid is dangerous in the first place. his numbers are bogus. you get pneumonia or have asthma, get tested positive for covid with the shitty tests that make no sense and you get hospitalized for covid

@meowski@fluf.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one in this case it's in the ribosomes so it's not touching anything responsible for your genotype.

@meowski@fluf.club its effective at strains they correctly predict will be in the wild. it's ineffective because they can't do this reliably. @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one

@meowski@fluf.club @lain@lain.com @Moon@shitposter.club @icedquinn@blob.cat @xerz@fedi.xerz.one the PCR tests doesn't even look for the virus most of the time; they made shit up for the target primer https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/

@hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @meowski@fluf.club @icedquinn@blob.cat @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one apparently if you crank the test up high enough it detects its own control sample.

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one not sure how effective it is even if they had the strain exactly right. it's well known now that flu vax actually weakens your immune system and increases respiratory infections, and increases your chance of getting flu in subsequent years. i've posted studies about this before. https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/54/12/1778/455098

@meowski@fluf.club i dunno. i was convinced by an A/B test i read that the Pasteur style vaccines can work but i was also convinced by the swiss vaccine summit that the adjuvents are problematic. since then also seen immunologists debate ramifications for using adjuvents to force immune cells to remain specialized when the body would like to have reclaimed them. don't have any hard data on any of it but i have to imagine there is more to the immune system than an antibodies test and there is probably a good reason they get turned off. for example the covid peptide vax researchers mentioned they were getting antibody responses in mucosal tissue but not in the normal "here is where we think antibodies live" areas. @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one

@icedquinn@blob.cat @meowski@fluf.club @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one irrelevant, just don't be fat

@slovborg@gleasonator.com @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @icedquinn@blob.cat @lain@lain.com @meowski@fluf.club @xerz@fedi.xerz.one The CDC issued recommendations for setting the sensitivity of PCR tests and in many cases the tests were never actually calibrated from preset. I am taking great pains to not present as a conspiracy theorist, but it really does seem to me like PCR testing was bullshit and never should have been relied on.

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one i can't really argue the basic premise of vaccines makes sense(even if it's an awful lot like homeopathy) the devil is in the details though. it's a fine line between an infectious pathogen and something your immune system can't recognize. and yea, the adjuvants are one of my main concerns. with mRNA nanotech- the possiblity for an unexpected recombination event is way more than i'm willing to risk not to mention i believe it will cause long term auto-immune disease due to human proteins similar similar to the spike protein of covid that is the antigen (such as ace2)

@meowski@fluf.club i'm curious about if doing away with adjuvents would provide adequate protection. @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one it would be a lot more expensive because they'd need way more of the antigen without antigents to angry up the immune system and increase the response

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one *antigents -> adjuvants sorry lol

@meowski@fluf.club not if peptide vaccines work @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one a peptide is just short amino acid molecule. what are you saying? there still has to be a certain amount of the antigen produced for the immune system to respond and remember

@meowski@fluf.club someone was working on a peptide vaccine for covid but they were some small biohacker group. a fediblob brought this up and i forget who it was. the peptides were apparently cheap enough they would be able to manufacture the things in jank labs and they don't need to grow the viruses in cultures to make it. @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one

@icedquinn@blob.cat @meowski@fluf.club @Moon@shitposter.club @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @lain@lain.com @xerz@fedi.xerz.one that's not relevant when it's an extortion racket. an ambulance ride is thousands of dollars. having a nurse care for you for five minutes is thousands of dollars. they can set whatever price they'd like.

@terrana@sleeping.town @xerz@fedi.xerz.one thjey already were making mrna vaccines but it was never passed for use on humans cus it alsways kills the rats after they get sick a fter being vaccinated