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tengumatingpress
I never got the faith-works distinction, wouldn't genuine faith naturally express itself through pious works? I'm not especially interested in Christian theology, forgive me if this is a stupid question.
Armutt 🌲📉
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@tengumatingpress@poa.st Yes. Faith without works is often called dead faith. Most of the disagreement is semantics.
tengumatingpress
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@hourmutt@poa.st Ah, so it's just dorks arguing semantics.

🌧🌲ꑭ NEPHILCHIM ✙🌲🌧
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@tengumatingpress@poa.st nothing is wrong with asking these kind of questions in my opinion. I wish more people would tbh 😁
Armutt 🌲📉
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@tengumatingpress@poa.st It's actually stupider than that as most of the dorks don't even realize they're just arguing over semantics
Insomnolant
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@tengumatingpress@poa.st You will know a tree by its fruit. A tree with rotten fruit is not a healthy tree. That doesn't make a bowl of fruit suddenly into a tree.
By faith are we saved through grace, not of ourselves, lest any man should boast. Someone who has faith will display it in his actions. That doesn't mean that if you go through the actions, that you have faith.
Jesus warned that many would say that they spoke his name, but he never knew them, so they were being cast out. Just going through the steps does not save you. Only a personal relationship with Jesus will.

DrRyanSkelton
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@tengumatingpress@poa.st The argument has been going on for hundreds of years so I don't think we're going to resolve it, but the conditions of one's salvation are literally the only important thing to argue about so I expect the argument to continue for hundreds of more years.
Remember that a lot of this isn't just about "You don't have to work the soup kitchen or give alms you're good friend," a lot of it involves confession and similar rituals in other Christian groups, so it's not all totally trivial.
I don't have a great answer though.

Type_Other
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@tengumatingpress@poa.st I've wondered with this if "belief" is what people say, or how they act?
I want to say actions reveal beliefs, similar to "revealed preference" in economics; if you simply ask people which bundles of goods they like more, you get unreliable data. You can only rely on how they behave when *actually* spending their money.
If a kid claims he doesn't believe there can be a monster under the bed, yet he checks every night just in case, does he believe or not? I'd say he does. His actions reveal a belief even if he won't consciously acknowledge it.
tengumatingpress
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@Insomnolant@poa.st That makes sense. I always took Matthew 25:31-46 as at least saying works were also important, but faith does seem to be the more relevant aspect.

tengumatingpress
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@Turkleton@poa.st Many arguments would probably be avoided if people actually agreed on what they were even discussing.
Insomnolant
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@tengumatingpress@poa.st Just speaking from personal experience, if you encounter someone in need and you callously turn them away, it causes your own heart to harden. It makes sense, because you're putting yourself first over them, right? Well putting yourself first is diametrically opposed to putting God first.
If you don't act on your faith, it is likely shriveled, like an atrophied muscle. I don't buy in the once-saved-always-saved notion because - again - salvation is dependent upon knowing Jesus, not just saying his name once and then forgetting about him.
If you go through the steps as a child but then refuse to love your neighbor, you've hardened your heart and in doing so shut Jesus out. That's something that Jesus warned about, a lot.
But he was also very repeatedly clear that faith is the thing that saves you. How you nurture faith, what inspires it, what can snuff it out, that is all much more nebulous than many autists would prefer, but we at least know that much.
I would also suggest looking at the way Jesus treated the Pharisees, up to and including whipping them for their behavior. He denounced the ones who made a great show of praying publicly, he denounced the ones who had a gaudy parade to show off donating so much money. Again and again, he denounced the people who did the right acts but were not right in their hearts. Jesus was extremely consistent about that.
tengumatingpress
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@Insomnolant@poa.st Thank you, that's the best way I've heard it explained.
Insomnolant
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@tengumatingpress@poa.st You're welcome, and I'm sorry I got mad earlier when you poked fun at me and my low IQ "story games" 

tengumatingpress
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@Insomnolant@poa.st That turned out to be a semantic misunderstanding, don't worry.