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Why Millennial Devs Can’t Make Authentic Retro Games
For many gamers who grew up with the classics of the 1980s and 1990s, 8 and 16-bit video games hold a special nostalgic charm. Yet despite the recent surge in retro style indie games…


Marakus
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People use pixel art not because its good, but because its easy. And they cant tell the difference between good art and bad art, they just try to emulate something.



🐍 SuperSnekFriend 🐍
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@RMIV@poa.st
On a more serious note, while I do agree with the aphorism that limitations help build creativity, how are we to practice that today? Without a catastrophe that devolves computer tech, the modern tech isn't going away anytime soon. How is a Millennial or Zoomer dev supposed to "limit" himself?
You could say, "Well, they can make self-imposed restrictions of what they can and cannot use," yet relying on abstract and non-tangible limits is harder and less impactful than the tangible and concrete ones that pre-2000's devs faced.
I don't think there can be an easy answer, tech-wise.

LittleTom
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retro games with prerendered graphics look disgusting in raw output. Shader correction is needed.


Nova :confederateflag: :windmilloffriendship:
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Can't relate too dumb to make games let alone code or change OS 


90% rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
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@LittleTom@poa.st @RMIV@poa.st @SuperSnekFriend@poa.st
''Corrective ~~rape~~ shaders neeeded.''-LittleTom




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sure you're not wrong; God has brought us into a time where the big question is what do you do with all this freedom and resources at hand.
therefore our limitations in a pursuit such as the one described above will inevitably be somewhat contrived.
but i don't consider that to be much of a conundrum; i have freedom from intense effortful labour and but choose to impose upon myself a discipline of lifting increasingly heavy sandbags on a fixed schedule. because there are results that i desire from this practice. but in a bigger picture sense there is an exploration of my human body and all the possibilities of its expression that can only be discovered by moving forward in this A, B, and then C, all the way to Z storytelling format that constitutes life.
so it's true that relying on abstract and self-imposed limitations is one thing and probably harder, but i must disagree that it is "less impactful." after all one must choose to be a Christian. one must choose to carve their body in a particular way via their regimen and eating habits. what they read and who they choose to associate with. choosing limitations is part & parcel of virtue.
it is a truism that the limitations of a given medium become its defining virtues.


Dunkag
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@SuperSnekFriend@poa.st @RMIV@poa.st It is very hard to limit yourself in the way needed, but at the same time more than possible. The main requirement is in building a set of very strict restrictions first to build from before starting development. I've complained before about PS1 and N64 inspired games not looking as they should, and that's a simple matter of not understanding the limitations that made these systems unique. Looking into these past systems, and finding an answer for what the restrictions should've been.
For example, and I know this will sound rather unhinged as a method, but bear with me. If you wanted to make a platformer based on Super Mario 64, and you want to recreate the look. These models are out there in the world, obtained from the game. It's entirely possible to pull out Mario's model, the stage models, various enemy models, etc, and look at their polygon counts. Look at how they use textures to make up for a lack of resources with which to model the world.
The same could be done for 2D games, systems had strict color restrictions, sound restrictions, and sprite limitations. While making a new game for the SNES is a rather silly suggestion, you can easily find documentation detailing a lot of the restrictions that would make your game more appealing.
There's even a recent example of this to work from, UFO 50. Sure, it's not the best case and I personally do have issues with how it attempts "retro", it does the idea well, certainly much better than your average "pixel art so retro indie game." They gave themselves a set bit of restrictions for what could be done, and it gives the collection a sense of consistency.
This may be a bit much to suggest, but really it's not impossible. Refusing the idea of adding at least some restrictions is mostly laziness. Much easier to throw together a bunch of mismatched pixel art and modern chiptune.
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veff 🌙
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The answer isn't hard, it's just obscured by the status quo. Yeah we've got good resources, but we've limited ourselves largely to a dual-stick interface or kb+m, which is a great limit and one that we can either surpass or hone. Same with hardware.
What pushes the limits of both? I'd look to VR, which is *still* very untapped and honestly could use some out-of-the-box thinking on interface beyond our current controllers. I think that we *can* have a different kind of charm as we try to work within those limitations. Alternatively, we can look at other interactive mediums like how Nintendo flirted with across each console.
Or, if thats not what yo want, what hones existing tech? We have good looking realistic games, but we also have very well-done stylizing that doesn't need limitations to create. Wind Waker didn't need to be a GameCube game for its charm, but it did have to follow GameCube rules and that's why the ocean is annoying and empty. Someone could take a similar style equivalent and make a much more rich and dense atmosphere. Or take our current realism and really optimize it. Alien Isolation looks as good as modern releases but plays fine with decades' old hardware.
There's many ways to go from here, but I wouldn't necessarily say we have fewer limitations, just different ones. Nobody pushes the boundaries anymore and that's why we're in remake hell.
supersid
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@veff@poa.st @RMIV@poa.st @SuperSnekFriend@poa.st I think you're both right. People could easily look to the past and see what tricks and techniques they used to make their artstyle timeless and appealing, but that it's a lost art because engines are good enough that developers who don't care can just upload 3D movie quality models unmodified and just pass the buck of stability to the user.

veff 🌙
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But we had similar problems in the old times, they've just been forgotten and only the classics stand out. I had so many garbage shovelware GPA/DS games (Usually movie licensed stuff which the B team threw together for a cheap buck)
The truly innovative things will always remain, but we haven't made that many. Last ones I can think of would probably be Prey 2017 & Control (original story, trippy visuals) and maybe Tunic (brought back the pencil-and-paper note taking of old.) All those aren't total paradigm changers like Half Life or MGS, but I think they'll stand the test of time while the rest of these remakes and pixel-vomit indie games will fade from memory.

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@Iffine@varishangout.net @RMIV@poa.st @SuperSnekFriend@poa.st its easy to create hardware limitations if you don't target computers. Small cheap dev kits with kb of ram are readily available.

supersid
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@veff@poa.st @RMIV@poa.st @SuperSnekFriend@poa.st Let me rephrase my opinion. I think any medium is generally at it's best when it's hard to do. Adversity breeds ingenuity and, more importantly, generally deters people who are less interested in the art and more in the money made.
There were shitty cash grab games back then too, but a lot of those still felt better then what we get now.

Crystal-Imprisoned Spingebill
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There’s also stuff like Pico-8, but in Pico-8’s particular case it’s so limited that it’s near impossible to make anything truly compelling with it, even when pushing the engine to its absolute limits

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@Spingebill@poa.st @RMIV@poa.st @SuperSnekFriend@poa.st @Iffine@varishangout.net the pico 8 seems like a cool idea but the lack of physical hardware kills it for me.
My first thought when you said it was limited was
"Cool, just add some spi flash as needed."
But there aren't real cartridges. Sharing code via png is still a funny troll move though.